What did a Toronto geek pay to conduct Mahler?

What did a Toronto geek pay to conduct Mahler?

Why Mahler

norman lebrecht

June 27, 2025

The entrepreneur Mandle Cheung, 78, conducted the Toronto Symphony in Mahler’s second symphony this week. According the New York Times he paid less than $400,000 for the privilege.

That’s dirt cheap.

Norio Ohga, Sony’s CEO, paid a million bucks to the Boston Symphony and the Met Opera orchestra for the chance to conduct them. Four hundred grand shouldn’t even buy you a rehearsal with a top orchestra.

Also in the Times report: Mark Williams, the Toronto Symphony’s chief executive, said the concert was part of the orchestra’s efforts to diversify its revenues.

Ho-hum.

Comments

  • Philipp Lord Chandos says:

    Well, it’s only the Toronto Symphony and not the Boston.

  • CRW says:

    That money would have been a great help to his son in law’s family who was killed in a car that Mandle drove. Perplexed why would a man spend almost $400,000 on a vanity binge while his own daughter and grandchildren have to resort to Gofundme charity.

    https://www.gofundme.com/f/family-of-jeff-knights

    https://www.yorkregion.com/news/crime/updated-manslaughter-charges-withdrawn-against-man-in-death-of-son-in-law-after-fatal-2018/article_b204548d-56ea-564f-b7f6-f53503c30dc6.html

    • Porschisch says:

      Yes, Mandle is one of the great amateur conductor/murderers

    • TeeHeeTSO says:

      Plus, TSO members make around $75K USD before taxes annually in one of the world’s most expensive cities. Were the tickets free? The concert wasn’t listed on the TSO’s site. The TSO just got $15 million for outreach programming. Their budget letter to the community says they spend over $10 million on the musicians and staff annually. But over $3 million on guest artists and conductors. Gee, no wonder some would take whatever paltry sum was left over (after the administration and musical directors took their cut).

    • ZandoA1 says:

      It’s easy. He’s xenophobic like a lot of Japanese and did not approve of his daughter marrying a non-Japanese.
      I enjoy visiting Japan but would never live there. The culture is outwardly cute and friendly but it has a dark side that I don’t care for.

  • David says:

    “Cheung covered the costs of the concert, which he said included the orchestra’s fee of about $337,000; a rental fee for Roy Thomson Hall of about $45,000; and soloist fees of about $15,000.”

    For an Arts organization running a deficit, what’s wrong with that (from a strictly financial perspective)? Costs were covered. You think that happens every other performance?

    Could be that someone else paid more for the Met Orchestra and Boston, but their costs are likely 2.5x higher. And even if they aren’t, they’re in a better bargaining position, given their prestige.

  • fierywoman says:

    Did anyone tell him that the orchestra was capable of paying it without him?

  • fierywoman says:

    PLAYING it.

  • Chiminee says:

    It’s a tough call on these vanity projects.

    On one hand, the money is money, and as we all know, ticket prices would need to be substantially raised to cover the cost of a concert, or musicians’ salaries would need to be slashed.

    On the other hand, there’s a lot to be said about artistic integrity, and I’d argue some orchestras have already gone way too far with accepting money from problematic people, corporations, and governments to help cleanse them of their literal crimes (such as how Credit Suisse became the NY Phil’s “global” sponsor after it got caught helping nations evade sanctions which ultimately led to a $500+ million fine).

    Here’s how I would do it: Only do this once a year, make it a charity auction, and have a $750k reserve. That way the orchestra is setting the terms and making it clear that they’re doing this for fundraising, and limiting the opportunity to only once a year could maybe get millionaires to bid against each other.

    • Anthony Sayer says:

      It raises further points, too. I’ve played Mahler 2 under an internationally-known and heavily-promoted young conductor and I’m sure no-one has batted an eyelid about it, despite the result being excessively underwhelming, to put it mildly. But because it was ‘his’ orchestra and everyone knows his name, it’s legit. Hmm…

    • Rudolph Bing Cherry says:

      Not a bad idea. However, that would invite complete incompetency, which isn’t bad so long as people know it’s a total joke that the auction winner doesn’t know what they’re doing.

      With Mandle, he has SOME knowledge and experience. Which makes this the rough equivalent of allowing someone who didn’t get past the first round of an audition sit principal. Hence, rankling in the ranks.

      The $337K for the orchestra translates roughly into a week’s extra salary, plus pension/benefit kick-ins, for about 100 players.

      So, a couple things: 1) Ensure that any billing/program listing says, at best, “featuring area musicians, including some from the TSO”); and, 2) Asterisk ALL guest players in any billing/program. 3) OK, more than a couple — add in at least one student conductor and/or ensemble, also paid for by the vanity winner (a, say, 25K scholarship to the winner).

      Then, it’s clearly a fundraiser as well as a community event, plus it’s clear who’s who and who opted in. Because, since some subbed out, it won’t be the complete complement of the TSO no matter who wins the auction, so why not be transparent?

      Ok, two more — 4) Include relevant orchestra committees well before signing on the bottom line; and, 5) Require a matching donation for the winning auction price for the local musicians’ union assistance programs.

      WINNER, WINNER X5, CHICKEN DINNER!!!!!!!

  • Mar says:

    Wowwwwww that really is dirt cheap. TSO is not Boston, but they’re still a major orchestra!

  • Nonna says:

    I mean, this is how Leon Botstein got started so who knows

  • Fred Funk says:

    Who cares? Did the viola section even notice he was there?!

    • Rudolph Bing Cherry says:

      Heard they were out playing a benefit for the Manitoba Water Polo Team, whose season got cancelled because, apparently, all the horses drowned.

  • Steve on nites says:

    Of course I know nothing.
    I am 65 and on overnight shifts since highschool.
    I could pop for the four hundred grand and choose to conduct Die Frau Ohne — you-know-who….but I have bad ankles since 11 yrs old and 45 + years physically hard work long 14 hr over night shifts while wearing ankle braces…..I would have to conduct w some sort of sitting situation.
    Be totally blessed.

  • Robert says:

    I recall a July 4th concert here where it was suddenly announced, “Now please welcome special guest conductor ____________” and out came a guy in a over-large, neon Sgt. Pepper band uniform.

    He flailed with no apparent rhythm while the ensemble played a march. After he took a bow and left the stage the concert continued as before.

    I hope some money changed hands for that.

  • Guy says:

    For $10 you can enter a raffle and get a chance to conduct the Windham Philharmonic in Brattleboro VT.

  • Jaapvanzwedenvictim says:

    I think the price different shows perfectly how the two orchestras are ranked.

  • Been There Done That says:

    He could have requested that he played the Mendelsohn violin concerto instead.

  • Fenway says:

    Probably was better than Jaap

  • Boris says:

    …for his next trick let’s hope he builds a submarine out of chopsticks and paper maché scores to play Handel’s Water Music on the deck of the Titanic….followed by a limerick parable buffet

  • Logan says:

    Several key players subbed out for this show and made disparaging remarks towards Mandle. They enjoy keeping it “white” under the veil of being progressive.

    • Jeremy says:

      I attended this concert – your first comment is incorrect. Nearly all of the orchestra’s principal players were performing except for three players on leave.

      The rest of your comment is also baseless… and gross.

    • Edgar says:

      Can you spell xenophobic and understand it’s meaning at the same time?

  • Guest says:

    What do you think orchestra musicians earn? 400k is still a lot of money for most part of the world population. And…I don’t think the conductor paid himself a fat pay check!

  • okram says:

    Assuming the average TSO musician is earning CAD 200,000, a typical orchestra week is 8 services (x 52 weeks = 416 services). Or $480 per service. For 100 musicians that would be $48,000 per service. Let’s say $75,000 to account for pension contributions, hall overhead, etc… So that buys 5 1/3 services. If they had four rehearsals and one performance, the fee he paid still covers the TSO’s salary costs. Though not a huge surplus.

    Honestly, his Mandle Philharmonic sounds like an excellent group; I don’t know why he didn’t perform it with them. That’s actually a good story: Tech CEO with a love for music forms his own orchestra, works with them for years, and finally plays Mahler 2.

    • Jeremy says:

      The average TSO player does not earn $200k.

      Salaries in Canada are not as high as the States across the Board.
      I’m not certain, but last I understood the TSO salary was around $100k for rank and file.

    • Rudolph Bing Cherry says:

      They start at about half that (75k/yr USD) for 43-week season. Check their audition page.

      • okram says:

        I was aiming high to make the point that the fee he paid likely more than covered the cost of the TSOs services. I guess it covered even more services than I estimated. Good on me.

        • Rudolph Bing Cherry says:

          Except you didn’t say that until your gross distortion was identified and you were exposed as talking out of several parts of your anatomy. Long as you’re the one cleaning that up, I agree, good on you.

  • IP says:

    And why do they pay Marin Alsop to do the same?

  • Anon says:

    Let’s be fair – anyone can pick up a top London band for around £15k a session on the recording circuit, perhaps less.
    Is this much different to a UK pops promoter picking up a UK band, plus major named hall, for c.£40k all-in and putting in their own very average stick-waver? Not really different in terms of artistic satisfaction and outcome, though the pops promoter might actually turn a profit

    Getting someone to cough up $400k isn’t bad going at all, given the going rate commercially.

  • He is a simp says:

    Is this not orchestra-whoring? But when the conductor gets paid, then it’s called performance.

  • MOST READ TODAY: